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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |

Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
1
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:CCP Paradox wrote:Woo! Feedback time :) Ahem. *cough cough*  Seriously, the CSM is also looking forward to hearing player feedback on this one, particularly on the "null-sec take-over of high-sec POCOs" question that's already come up on page one. Can high-sec entities make it more trouble than it's worth to GSF or other null-sec entities to defend against reinforced POCOs over and over again? Or will the cost of the war-dec itself be the primary shield?
Come on. Really? You even have to ask this @#$@ question? How dense are you guys? I don't get riled up about much with this game, but when I see comments like this and CCP's obvious and daft attempt to spin the "wheel of fortune" without knowing what space it will land on, I tend to get a bit perturbed.
Let me be clear before pressing on... I don't use hisec POCO's, I could care less about hisec POCO's, but I feel the need to correct such ignornance in abundance as do most players in this game.
I am calling shinanigans. How anyone thinks that (with the exception of the rare quiet hisec system at first) this won't be the biggest land grab for null or already large entities in EVE - you have to be deaf, dumb and stupid.
What this whole thing tells me (painfully obvious) is that CCP has truly set its long term game design on the idea of Rubicon.
This expansion is the begining of making player owned/run alliances equals with NPC. I get it.
I can't say I hate the idea, I just think (thought as you have preached it for YEARS) -- that this is what 0.0 is (was) for! Why not buff 0.0 instead of nerfing Hisec.
Fin
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Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
1
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aryth wrote:As the person that developed the highsec poco plans...Your fears of Goons taking over all the highsec pocos are completely unfounded. It isn't required or desired.
What you should really be worried about hasn't even been brought up yet.
Oh your mean the impending Market speculation and price increase the Goons pride themselves on? |

Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
2
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Philpip wrote:Can I get clarification on the anchoring please (and sorry if this has already been asked).
Do you have to have local faction standing to anchor like you would a pos?
No, no restrictions like that.
Now see ---THAT IS A GOOD IDEA.
WHY THE HECK DOESN'T A CORP NEED STANDING TO ANCHOR A POCO LIKE A POS??!
That would fit with all the past lore in game and only make sense and REWARD players for grinding standing. REWARD industrialists for their hard work. Small indy corps would have purpose.
But we can't have that can we (null alliances)....err CCP.
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Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
2
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Elana Maggal wrote:So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".
PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.
heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people
While I completely agree with you sir, you imply large coalitions are run by rule of law instead of rule of one (dictatorships like ....) |

Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
2
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Elana Maggal wrote:Andski wrote:heaven forbid CCP slightly trims the massive amount of cotton wool wrapped around every hisec player and allows groups to compete over assets in hisec Yeah - except there is no competition here. The Big Alliances win. Game over. Anything else and you're just deluding yourself. Now if there were SEVERAL custom offices at each planet, there might be actual competition ...
Agreed. Goons are not always the best at fighting but they STILL BELIEVE IN THE BLOB. |

Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
4
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Posted - 2013.10.01 18:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Nullsec gets handed siphons to steal moongoo and nullsec says nothing as that is funny what will promote some fun at the expense of our income.
Highsec gets handed POCOS and flips out because they want to play farmville in peace without those nasty big alliances clubbing them over the head.
The rabbit hole is much deeper than people seem to realize in this thread. We have three plans. Only one of which anyone is focusing on at this point. You should be worried far more about your fellow highsecer than us. While we are interested, this is fairly small income to us outside certain select cases. Worry more about your neighbors.
The problem is (as always and in US history) is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and we all suffer from the short-sighted greed that is your master plan or that plan of anyone being so space-rich they run out of ideas except to terrorize other people.
The answer lies in economics and math just as it always has.
Anarchy isn't the way and Socialism (space carebears isn't either). Go ask Dr. E what he thinks of Nash and game theory.
Einstein said it as well. Paraphrasing, "You do what is best for yourself AND the group and you get the optimal outcome. If we really are playing internet spaceships second life here, then that is THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER HERE. Any new CCP "feature" to come out should meet both these criterium.
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Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
6
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Posted - 2013.10.01 18:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Michael Turate wrote:Superb changes, you little anti-social guys need to pick a side and then buy a microphone. Remember that CCP makes the sandbox and the dimensions and rules of the sandbox are down to their designs. There has been YEARS of notice that high sec changes were coming and that the sandbox would be adjusted to make co-operative play work better than lone wolfing. Eve played as a socially co-operative experience was always the stated aim of the developers, the game is much better played that way in any case. This is the future and there's no going back now, more to follow I'm sure, explosions incoming.
OBVIOUS CCP ALT
Go do what you are paid to do and work on fixing the game we all pay for instead of trolling.
P.S. Why change Hisec? Isn't hisec for learning the game. Then we all "graduate" to 0.0 as was told to us years ago. ::rolls eyes:: |

Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
6
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Posted - 2013.10.01 18:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Aliath Sunstrike wrote:CCP Paradox wrote:Philpip wrote:Can I get clarification on the anchoring please (and sorry if this has already been asked).
Do you have to have local faction standing to anchor like you would a pos?
No, no restrictions like that. Now see ---THAT IS A GOOD IDEA. WHY THE HECK DOESN'T A CORP NEED STANDING TO ANCHOR A POCO LIKE A POS??! That would fit with all the past lore in game and only make sense and REWARD players for grinding standing. REWARD industrialists for their hard work. Small indy corps would have purpose. But we can't have that can we (null alliances)....err CCP. fyi this will not save you we have high standings alts just like you anchor with alt -> transfer to goonwaffe
Ahh good point. But it does make it a bit harder.
Also - as I mentioned in another post but will restate here, I don't care about hisec POCO's personally, I just want to see EVE balanced for all instead of dying a slow death to one. |

Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
6
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Posted - 2013.10.01 18:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Aliath Sunstrike wrote:
The problem is (as always and in US history) is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and we all suffer from the short-sighted greed that is your master plan or that plan of anyone being so space-rich they run out of ideas except to terrorize other people.
The answer lies in economics and math just as it always has.
Anarchy isn't the way and Socialism (space carebears isn't either). Go ask Dr. E what he thinks of Nash and game theory.
Einstein said it as well. Paraphrasing, "You do what is best for yourself AND the group and you get the optimal outcome. If we really are playing internet spaceships second life here, then that is THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER HERE. Any new CCP "feature" to come out should meet both these criterium.
Quoting for the ages. I have never seen so much ill-conceived pseudo-intellectual prattle mish-mashed into one post before. This **** needs to be on t-shirts. Also, this poco change completely makes up for the tos and blink stuff. Thoroughly enjoying Eve Online: Forums today.
WOW! You actually succeeded in bashing your own post! Great intelectual comeback bra....you mad? |

Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
7
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Posted - 2013.10.01 18:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Aliath Sunstrike wrote:Aryth wrote:Nullsec gets handed siphons to steal moongoo and nullsec says nothing as that is funny what will promote some fun at the expense of our income.
Highsec gets handed POCOS and flips out because they want to play farmville in peace without those nasty big alliances clubbing them over the head.
The rabbit hole is much deeper than people seem to realize in this thread. We have three plans. Only one of which anyone is focusing on at this point. You should be worried far more about your fellow highsecer than us. While we are interested, this is fairly small income to us outside certain select cases. Worry more about your neighbors. The problem is (as always and in US history) is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and we all suffer from the short-sighted greed that is your master plan or that plan of anyone being so space-rich they run out of ideas except to terrorize other people. The answer lies in economics and math just as it always has. Anarchy isn't the way and Socialism (space carebears isn't either). Go ask Dr. E what he thinks of Nash and game theory. Einstein said it as well. Paraphrasing, "You do what is best for yourself AND the group and you get the optimal outcome. If we really are playing internet spaceships second life here, then that is THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER HERE. Any new CCP "feature" to come out should meet both these criterium. I don't disagree with most of what you said really. I spend a great deal of my "EVE" time inventing ways to make our collective richer, more secure, more powerful, or have more fun. So we do indeed pursue the optimal outcome for our group. Yes, if you are outside the group you will not benefit from those actions but all richness and content must come at the expense of something or someone. That is the nature of sandboxes and to some extent all MMO's. The major thing to remember is none of our plans are short sighted in the least. We just don't do that because it isn't efficient when trying to coordinate even our own alliance, much less CFC. Our plans are generally multi-year plans. Or research for plans. People need to take the time to really think about these changes with a long view. The kneejerk reactions happening in this thread are what is short sighted.
Thanks for the reply and compliment. Back at ya - you guys are great at planning. I was just sticking to the here and now. Long term, honestly, I will just stop playing if it becomes so unbalanced. All politics is local is the old saying, this is sorta the same thing. The battle is the small here and now.
Again, I like the long term plans too, just saying, keep this in mind as you will eventually run out of poor in game. Like W. Buffett said recently, "The rich can't get richer until the poor do." I am not saying Goons are out for monopoly, just warning against it for your own space-fun benefit. |

Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
7
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Posted - 2013.10.01 18:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Aliath Sunstrike wrote: The problem is (as always and in US history) is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and we all suffer from the short-sighted greed that is your master plan or that plan of anyone being so space-rich they run out of ideas except to terrorize other people.
i didn't start out able to buy and sell you hundreds of times i worked my way to the top
Yes you probably did....IN A BALANCED SYSTEM which you took for granted and are now apparently set upon destroying. That is the presumption I am trying to get across - a la theory crafting. Just keep that in mind.
Not bashing the hi-sec POCO idea, just trying to advance the conversation with this axiom in the minds of the readers and controllers (CCP and the goons :)
Also - with that - I am out of this thread. Too much real life time wasted. EVE is great and all but this game turns to work really quick sometimes. Today - case in point.
You are all welcome for the education I provided you free of charge.
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Aliath Sunstrike
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Diogenes Club
37
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Posted - 2013.10.04 18:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aryth wrote:
I have not denied anything. As stated before, I was the one that developed the plans. But even those plans require less than 2% of highsec POCOS at most. Even that is a stretch and HIGHLY unlikely.
The game mechanics dictate that anyone big already has a fairly sizeable income stream thus far for their membership. That may not be alliance ISK and can take the form of membership ISK, but it is still income.
So mechanics dictate that the only mega entities holding POCOs will be ones that find it attractive to do so from either an income generation perspective or for PVP opportunities. Frankly there are better PVP generators for mega entities but some of this will occur. The ISK/RISK reward will have various cutoff points for corp/alliance sizes. But with the sheer # of planets in highsec/highsec islands it is not practical within the current game mechanics to hold a large portion.
People need sandcastles in EVE. PI has been a risk free wealth generator for quite some time now. We won't be the highsec PI boogeyman, but I sure hope a few dozen entities are. It will provide a natural progression path.
Highsec (PI,Decs) -> Lowsec (PVP,FW) -> WH (Small scale warfare, POS) -> Null (Large Scale warfare/SOV)
Will some people lose their risk free ISK machine? Yes Will they be able to relocate and find an appropriate tax location? Yes If anything people should be looking forward to taking some out of the way backwater POCO and setting their rate to 0% for their corp and charging others a modest tax. Why everyone is fixated on the Bloc/Alliance problem is beyond me.
Fixate on what happens in other scenarios, not that one.
I want to comment on this post out of this entire threadnaught because I think this is probably the most insightful and well thought out post of the lot. (Minus all his other and other goons trolling - which has reached a new record high in this thread I think.)
First off - I completely 110% agree that it is way too carebear that people made money doing hisec PI with no risk. This is so un EVE and life that it needed a boot. Granted I started out in EVE as an industrialist and like that aspect of the game, but there has to be risk/reward as Aryth says. Sandcastles people - sandcastles.
With that said though, I will reiterate my original point, that I think this game should probably always leave hisec as the de-facto learning ground but we already broke that years ago, with bumping, can flipping, suicide ganking, etc. Why I say this is because I do worry it will run potential players off by making the EVE learning curve even steeper.
(SIDE RANT: But I can tell EVERY PLAYER reading this right now that CCP DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THAT. They care about something greater, money. Every time a new player signs up, buys a ton of plex and ISK's up through their system they jump with joy! Subscriptions are nothing compared to the PLEX machine. People cry in this game about microtransactions and pay to win. Gimme a break. How can 90% of the player base be so dumb. The day PLEX was introduced with no complaining was the day pay to win came to EVE. You can take PLEX and buy a top of the line toon on Character Bazaar, then buy all the best ships. Simple. Yeah you have to get good at em and you will lose some, but what does CCP care. You have already invested a ton of cash into this hobby.)
Anyways - I digress. The reason I say all this is because Hisec is no longer Hisec people - it needs to only be called NPC Empire. A place CONCORDE exists and for how long, no clue. Up until now I (like the other 90% - do with that what you want Goon trolling brigade) thought that CCP had always designed Hi-sec to be a safe haven for LEARNING about the game...and that probably was the case; not anymore.
Get ready for the day when EVE is all about REALLY ALIGNING yourself with people of like minds. I wouldn't doubt if NPC Factions lose control of EMPIRE. IT is about the evolution of EVE. It is about Rubicon and the beginning of the end of the way things as we know it. CCP has developed the tools over the years, now they want to turn us lose to our own devices.
Aryth here just had to spell it out for all of us (myself included). Cheers mate.
/Grady
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